For my Goal Line Stand study I wanted to talk about the students who took a stand at Columbine. I couldn’t remember how to spell Cassie’s last name so I went looking online and was shocked to find many stories talking how the famous “Are you a Christian” question probably never happened. Here was as story that I just assumed I had all of the facts about and apparently I was wrong.

I still talked about the girls (Rachel and Cassie) and about their life as a Christian, but my curiosity was piqued so I went looking for more information. I remembered a book that came out last year simply titled Columbine and how it was a definitive look of what happened or at least what we know. So I picked it up from Audible and have been listening to it.

I am still only halfway through. I can’t listen for long because it just makes me sad. But what struck me is how normal these two guys (Eric and Dylan) were. They weren’t outcasts. Dylan went to the prom the Saturday before the shooting. They both had friends and dates and in a school of 2000 people they were picked on occasionally, but not relentlessly. They weren’t outcasts. They were like most teenage rebels. They were dressing differently than the gap, but dressing like their own group of friends. Dylan’s family had even attended a local church for a while.

As a youth pastor I am riveted by this story and by what it says about teenagers and the media. It is an interesting read with some insightful stuff about evangelical and mainline churches and their response to the tragedy. It even includes an account of Dylan’s funeral. Can you imagine preaching the funeral of a boy who just went in to shoot his school. What do you say to his parents who are grieving and shocked? Anyway, I would suggest picking it up.

10 thoughts on “Columbine

  • September 18, 2009 at 3:49 PM

    A bit of info you won’t find in the mainstream media was the heavy satanic orientation of the trenchcoat mafia[TCM] group that, yes, Harris and Klebold were very much a part of–

    1)  TCMer Eric Dutro walking around the school cafeteria telling people that "Satan loves you"(Kelly Beer, 6106) in the spring of ’98.

    2)   Courtney van Dell, aka ‘devil girl,’  wore barettes in her hair to make it look like she had horns.  Said to be a ‘wikken'(sic) or a devil worshipper(Kristi Mohrbacher(1010), Jessica Lucero(1508 ), Leigh Ann Clark(2723)).

    3)  The students seeking shelter with Clement Park worker Steve Ogle(1056) told him the perpetrators were TCM and were "satanists".

    4)  Jecoa Catt(1364) told IO that the TCM were satanic.

    5)  Jason Jones(1474) observed the TCM playing ‘magic’ cards in the cafeteria, which were about the devil and about power.

    6)  Lacey Shotts(1651) said she believed the TCM students were ‘devil worshippers.’

    7)  Jen Smull saw Robert Perry at a halloween party dressed as a worlock(1827).

    8 ) Student Perlman(4054) said Joe Stair used to come to woodshop class with a book he called ‘the devil’s bible’.

    9)  Prior to 4th hour on 4-20, Nicole Ray(4144) saw a male TCMer in the science hall, with his hair fashioned into devil’s horns.

    10) TCM associate Nathan Dykeman’s bedroom wall was supposedly covered with devil posters(4630).

    11)  Nathan Dykeman says Harris called him ‘devil man’.(10710)

    12)  Daniel Burg(5838 ) told the IO that "…the TCM–they’re like satanists."

    13)  TCM leader Chris Morris told Mark Hengel(5899) "I don’t believe in God. I follow Satan’s Commandmants."

    14)  Sara Lutes(6821) says the TCM were satanic, and that they wore satanic symbols on their shirts, underneath their trenchcoats.

    15)  Chris Hooker, 18, said they were "satanic individuals."
    "We’d see them every day. They’ve threatened to kill people … but nobody thought that was serious," Hooker said.

    16)  Library Intern Mary Ziccardi(13647) spent one week at CHS in November of ’98.  Says Eric Harris "looked like the devil" and may have worn black lipstick.

    17)  Teacher Mr. Long(EP24-17) said he kicked TCM associate Joe Stair out the computer class for accessing satanic sights.  This happened last year.(1998)

    18 ) TCM associate Eric Ault(10645) told the IOs that "they were into satanic worship."

    19)  Jennfer Harmon(8835):  "…one of their friends-‘Becka’-was waiting for the devil to take over the soul."

    20)  Brooks Brown(  "They’re(TCM) all big on anti-God Satanism.  They are really just ‘pure hate’."

    21)  What kind of music did the TCM like?  ‘Devil’ music according to Brandi Wiseman(4751).

    22)  Trista Fogerty(1420):  TCM were satanic, when she first got to CHS friends told her to avoid the group.

    23)  Nicole Markham(8794):  "Harris was into…heavy satanic music."

    24)  Nicole Lawson, sophomore(3526):  (TCM associates)"Stephanie(Kinny) and Kelly(Schwab) would draw "fnords" on the black board.  Fnords are little symbols that were servants of the devil.  They would draw a whole bunch of them.  They did it when no one was looking."    [‘fnord’ is thought to stand for ‘for no other reason, discord’]

  • September 18, 2009 at 7:51 PM

    Just a couple of questions: 1) Where are these quotes pulled from and 2) what do the numbers mean?

  • September 21, 2009 at 3:39 PM

    Thanks, but that only leads me to a similar quote by the same commenter. I’m not trying to be argumentative, I was just wondering where the quotes came from. I assume that will explain what the numbers mean as well.

  • September 21, 2009 at 9:44 PM

    Right. But the quotes were from the same guy. He has that same post all over the internet. (Look at his name at google) He probably pulled the quotes from the umteen hundred page report. The numbers are likely the lines they came from. Do a search for the report and you will likely find what it is. He won’t answer you, I am sure, because he jsut posts and runs, from what I saw.

  • September 22, 2009 at 3:32 AM

    Yes, the quotes were mostly pulled from the witness interviews from the Jefferson County Sheriff’s Office report on the shooting. The numbers are page numbers from that report. It was once accessible on the net but now if might be hard to find. Though I assure you the quotes are accurate.

    Another thing the media didn’t tell you is that the TCM group were heavily into role-playing vampirism–

    –Jordana Spaven(a friend of Harris and Klebold)(pg 18154)
    "Jordana also advised that both Eric and Dylan role-played(LARP-live action role play). This game is based on the book [b]Vampire-the Masquerade[/b].
    "Dylan and Eric are into vampires and all their clan will be warned by pagers or cell phone before the next incident occurs."

    –Jordana Spaven, Dakota Ridge HS(13547)
    "The game is based on the book "[b]Vampire-the Masquerade[/b]" and when you play you dress the part of a vampire clan, then one person writes a script and hands it out at the playing location. ….Jordana believed that Eric and Dylan played in the mountains most of the time, and that their clan used toy weapons(plastic guns and knives). I asked Jordana what they portray when they play the game and Jordana stated that it is usually [b]a fight between clans[/b]."

    –Unk Sub at Mesa Ridge H.S. (in a neigboring county)
    "He stated the Trenchcoat Mafia are Goths that believe they are vampires….. that to join the Trenchcoat Mafia you have to be cut on either forearm, your blood is collected and drank by the other person present.
    "Colo Springs chapter called Malcavia(sic)
    Denver chapter – Gengrial(sic)
    Pueblo chapter – Torreadors"

    –I came across this reference in the website of a Denver area game playing group(From BloodShadows, Night 54, Denver LARP group, 5-1-99):
    "Gamesmaster note
    The Columbine situation. Yes, it happened in game. Yes, it will have ramifications on the game world just as it does the real world. You can presume that there has been the same outcry in the BloodShadows world as there has been in Denver over the last couple of weeks.
    But I will not bring this into play in terms of roleplaying anything having to do with it.”
    ["Yes, it happened in game" This sounded to me like the LARPers were pre-enacting the Columbine event before it happened, though the webmaster denied it when I emailed her.]

    –Matt Rieck(5632)
    Best friend of Perry, describes a LARP game played with dice, maps, and other paraphenalia.
    "(Redacted) was a "dungeon master," or developer and moderator of a game scenario" which involved ‘combat situations.’ (Redacted) played with Chris Morris and Joe Stair. (Redacted) was an ‘avid gamer.’

    –Lance Reno, Arapahoe HS(13460)
    "I then ask Lance if he had been involved in ‘LARPing’ and Lance stated he has played the game ‘[b]Vampire-The Masquerade[/b]’ but has never played in real life, only on a board. Lance stated that [b]the game involved the use of guns and knives by the players and can be violent….[/b]"

    –Some(of the TCM) even wear white pancake makeup and dark eyeliner, one student said. ”It was that devilish, half-dead, half-alive look,” said Bret, a 16-year-old sophomore who spoke on the condition only his first name be used. (Brooke N.P.)

  • September 22, 2009 at 3:07 PM

    OK, now don’t take this the wrong way, but what’s your point? Even assuming that they were involved in the TCM (which many people would say is a myth) what does it matter?

    These guys were relatively normal teenagers. They may not have been "Gap" clones, but they had friends and looked well adjusted. The book is a great read because it paints a picture of these guys from their own journals and videos. As someone who works with teenagers it has been a real eye opening experience.

  • September 22, 2009 at 7:24 PM

    What does it matter? What does the truth matter? Why talk about Columbine, when you don’t even know what happened? Did Dave Cullen even mention this guy?–

    –Crystal Archuleta, junior (EP1-197)
    "…she did see one person throw a pipe bomb. …..She told me at the time she thought it was Robert Perry."

    –Seth Dubois, freshman (EP21-125)
    "…Seth told Katherine(Carlston) that Robert Perry was seen shooting a girl in the back while leaving the library."

    –Wade Allen Frank, senior (EP1-91)
    "Mr. Frank told me that he thought origonally one of the individuals(shooting) was someone by the name of Robert…" "He stated that the person was tall, approximately 6’3" and kind of ackward(sic) and gangly."

    –Bryan Frye, sophomore (EP25-69)
    "He stated that the person he had previously believed this shooter to be was Robert Perry. …..In a previous interview, after receiving his yearbook, he had told his father that he believed the shooter to be Robert Perry. He also stated that the gunman had bad acne."

    –Courtney Haulman, freshman (EP25-91)
    "There was three guys. The guy I remember most was the main guy. He’s over 6′ tall and has long curly dark-colored hair. He was wearing a trench coat. His name is Robert Perry."

    –Lacey Hohn, freshman (EP1-186)
    "…can you identify or descibe who was shooting? ….Ms. Hohn said that she does not believe it was Harris or Klebold. Ms. Hohn believes it was an individual named Robert."

    –Bijen Monty, junior (EP1-110)
    "I asked her if she saw the source of the shooting. She told me she saw who she thought, at the time, was Robert Perry with a gun hanging around his neck. She said she never actually saw him shoot the weapon.
    "She asked me if I had any information in regards to Robert Perry. I informed her I did not."

    –Tessa Nelson, freshman (EP1-113)
    "I asked her if she saw the source of the shots. She said she saw a male, who she thought was Robert Perry, wearing boots, dark jeans with dark hair, walking down the stairs outside the cafeteria. She said the male suspect pulled a gun and started shooting."

    –Katelyn Sue Place, freshman (EP21-285)
    Kate said, "It was (Redacted). I’m almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class….. . …Dylan kind of looked like Robert, but Dylan doesn’t have the long face. Robert’s teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then. Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, "It’s not one of them."(Referring to the person she saw shooting out on the outside commons.)
    "She remembers him shooting Ann Marie(Hochalter). …. Robert was just randomly shooting. …Robert was still shooting. ….Kate said that Robert shot Ann Marie before he smiled at Kate. ….She looked and saw Jason(Autenrieth) trying to help Ann Marie, dragging her away from Robert, to the side."

    –Lacey Smith, junior (4470)
    "On the diagram she depicts (Redacted) as walking in through the doors, past where she was sitting, and going in about as far as they north end of the school store. It was at that time she heard the windows breaking and then realized she was hearing shots.
    ….she did not have any trouble indentifying PERRY when he walked past her. I asked SMITH how sure she was that the person she saw and spoke with was (Redacted). I asked, "90 percent sure? 50 percent sure?" Her response was "100 percent sure." I then showed SMITH a photo lineup which included a picture of Dylan KLEBOLD, and asked her if the person who walked past her was in the lineup. She stated he was NOT in the lineup. …..As (Redacted) passed her and was near the commons area of the cafeteria, she then explained that (Redacted) pulled a weapon out from under his trench coat and started firing into the cafeteria."

    –Brenton Hooker, junior (16397)
    "….he turned around and observed an individual he thought was ROBERT PERRY(ex-student of Columbine High School) standing outside the door just to the north of the main entrance shooting a pistol in his direction…. ….HOOKER described the individual he thought was PERRY as 6’8" – 6’11" in height, very skinny, tight black pants, black trench coat… ."

  • September 23, 2009 at 2:47 AM

    I’m not a Columbine expert. In fact I didn’t watch much coverage of it at the time and really knew less that most people. My original post was to tell people to go and check out a book that helps you see into the mind of teenagers as well as has some outside portrayals of evangelicals.

    With that said, you seem to have two different axes to grind. 1) you feel like the killings at Columbine were part of some larger conspiracy and you are upset that these people were never charged and 2) you feel like it had something to do with Satan worship. At least I think that is what I am seeing with all of your quotes.

    If you are someone who believes that there was a great conspiracy going on in the investigation of Columbine then I invite you to check out some other forums where people who agree with you can support you and people who disagree with you actually have some gumption to fight. I on the other hand can’t possibly see the reason to cover up other people’s involvement and I also think that Cullen did a pretty good job of discussing eye witness testimony and how it got some turned around in his book.

    Thanks of checking out I hope you find something else useful and can contribute to the discussion of creative ways to minister to the church and students.

  • September 23, 2009 at 2:59 AM

    ”Ignorance is bliss, until it kills you”

    Teach the children well, pastor.


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